1 OFFICE OF THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER
LABORORS' INTERNATIONAL UNION OF NORTH AMERICA
2
3
4
IN RE: TRUSTEESHIP PROCEEDINGS
5 CHICAGO DISTRICT COUNSEL DOCKET NO.: 97-30T
6 _______________________________________________________
7
8
TESTIMONY OF: MICHAEL CORBITT
11 Ended: 2:00 p. m.
12 PLACE: Coleman Federal Correctional
14 REPORTED BY: ELIZABETH GOTCH
Florida at Large
17 Pages 1 - 166
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E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
Attorney at Law
1600 Market Street - Suite 2650
4 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103
6
DWIGHT P. BOSTWICK
Comey Boyd & Luskin, P. A.
8 1025 Thomas Jefferson Street, N. W.
Suite 420 East
9 Washington, D. C. 20007-5243
10 Attorney for GEB Laborers' Union
11
12 Attorney at Law
Carmell Charone Widner Mathews & Moss, Ltd.
13 225 West Washington Street - Suite 1000
14
Attorney for the Chicago District
ROBERT A. SCLGALSKI
Inspector General's Office
19 TARA L. REINHART
21
RUSS WOOD
FBI Tampa, Florida
24 JOE GRIFFIN (Appeared by Telephone)
25 Inspector General's Office
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
3
2 Examination by Mr. Bostwick 4
Examination by Mr. Carmell 117
3 Examination Continued by Mr. Bostwick 161
Examination Continued by Mr. Carmell 163
4 Certificates of Reporter 165, 166
6 E X H I B I T S
7 Number Description Page
8 50 Memorandum from Larry Damron 29
164A Photograph 41
10 168B Interior Sketch of Counselor's Row 84
179 Private Security Pass to Pat Marcy's
11 Home in Hinsdale 100
20 Indictment 114
12 21 Verdict 114
14
15
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E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
1 The testimony of MICHAEL CORBITT taken
2 this 13th day of August, 1997, by Elizabeth Gotch,
3 Shorthand Reporter and Notary Public for the
4 State of Florida at Large, at Coleman Federal
5 Correctional Institution, Bushnell, Sumter County,
6 Florida, beginning at the hour of 9:30 a. m.
8 THE HEARING OFFICER: We'll now go on the
9 record and Mr. Bostwick will proceed.
10 MR. BOSTWICK: I'd ask that our witness be
11 sworn in. The witness' name is Michael Corbitt.
12 Whereupon:
14 having been first duly sworn on oath, was examined and
16 THE HEARING OFFICER: The record indicates
17 that the witness has been sworn. Mr. Corbitt will be
18 questioned this morning by Mr. Bostwick.
19 EXAMINATION
21 Q. Good morning, Mr. Corbitt. Could you state
22 your name and spell your last name for the record.
23 A. My name is Michael Corbitt, C-O-R-B-I-T-T.
24 Q. What is your current age?
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
1 Q. What is your present location here?
2 A. I'm in a federal correctional institute in
3 Florida.
4 Q. You're serving a prison sentence?
5 A. That's correct.
6 Q. What is the length of that sentence?
8 Q. Are you serving a sentence for more than one
9 conviction?
11 Q. Could you tell us about those convictions,
12 please, in order.
13 A. Tell you what they are or --
14 Q. That's correct, what they are.
15 A. Racketeering, racketeering conspiracy, and
16 obstructing justice.
17 Q. Let's take the first one now, racketeering.
18 Could you tell us when that conviction occurred and what
19 the general nature of it was?
20 A. The conviction was in 1988. I plead guilty to
21 several counts of racketeering, racketeering conspiracy,
22 extortion, bribery.
23 Q. Was this related in any way to organized crime
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
1 Q. How about your second conviction?
2 A. My second conviction was for extortion and
3 racketeering conspiracy, and that was in 1989.
5 A. Obstruction of justice, and that was in 1991.
6 Q. What did that relate to?
7 A. My first racketeering case, I was charged with
8 altering documents that were submitted to the court.
9 Q. In the first two, racketeering and
10 racketeering conspiracy, could you give us a brief
11 subject matter of what that related to.
12 A. In the first racketeering case, I was charged
13 with soliciting bribes from chop shop operators,
14 soliciting bribes from mob figures to approve
15 bookmaking operations in my community and other bribery
17 My second conviction --
18 Q. Let me stop you right there. On the first
19 one, what position did you hold, if any, when you were
20 soliciting these chop shop offers and bribes?
21 A. I was the Chief of Police of the suburb of
22 Willow Springs, Illinois.
23 Q. Now go on to the second one, if you will, and
24 tell us a little bit about that conviction.
25 A. The second involved racketeering conspiracy in
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
1 which murder-for-hire was committed, other acts of
2 bribery and extortion involving attorneys and other mob
3 figures in Chicago.
4 Q. So the second conviction related to organized
7 Q. Now let me get this clear at the outset. The
8 GEB Attorney's office here for LIUNA, the
9 Laboror's Union, has offered to consider making both the
10 fact that you've testified here today and the substance
11 of that testimony available to your sentencing judge for
12 consideration. Is that correct?
13 A. That's correct.
14 Q. Who will make the ultimate determination, if
15 any, as to whether that results in any different
16 disposition of your sentence.
17 A. That's correct. But it's almost irrelevant.
18 I've almost completed all of my time on my sentence so
19 it's really irrelevant.
20 Q. What's the time you're serving on your
21 sentence?
22 A. I'm serving the entire sentence, two-thirds of
23 an old law twenty-year sentence, which is
24 eleven years, nine months. In October, I complete ten
25 years of my sentence.
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
1 THE HEARING OFFICER: The question is, does
2 the judge really have any jurisdiction to do anything
3 about it anyway at this point?
4 THE WITNESS: It's really irrelevant. It
5 doesn't make any difference anyway.
6 THE HEARING OFFICER: I don't know what he can
7 -- I mean, what he has to do. I think the judge loses
8 jurisdiction.
10 Q. (BY MR. BOSTWICK) Has the government made any
11 promises to you in exchange for your testimony here
12 today?
13 A. Absolutely not.
14 Q. Have you ever provided testimony for the
16 A. I've done several proffers on my case. Other
20 Q. Mr. Corbitt, you testified that you served on
21 the police force in the Chicago area. Could you give us
22 a brief overview of the time periods that you held
23 positions in the police department and the positions you
25 A. In 1965, I was appointed as a patrolman to the
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
9
1 Willow Springs Police Department, which is a small
2 suburb in Southwestern Cook County.
3 In 1967, I left and went to the
4 Village of Summit where I was a police officer for about
5 eighteen months, and then I returned to Willow Springs
7 In 1973, I became the chief of police and was
9 From 1981 to 1987, I carried a star from the
10 Cook County Sheriff's Department and was assigned to the
11 clerk of court as an investigator.
12 Q. 1987 is when --
13 A. In 1987, I was -- in 1986, I was indicted. In
14 1887, I was convicted on my first case.
15 Q. From your experience, Mr. Corbitt, how would
16 you define the term organized crime?
17 A. So you could be aware of it in the terms of
18 Chicago, I would describe it as a group of individuals
19 who are working to make money for themselves illegally
20 through different means, extortion, prostitution, juice
21 loans, that type of thing. It's a money-making
22 operation where you pay no taxes and no fees.
23 THE HEARING OFFICER: Would you say that they
24 are working at the business of crime?
25 THE WITNESS: The business of crime, yes.
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
1 Q. (BY MR. BOSTWICK) You've used the term "juice
2 loans". Could you describe what that is.
3 A. Juice loans is the lending of money at
4 exorbitant interest rates that never get paid off in
5 some cases and -- that's about it.
6 Q. You've heard of the term "street tax"?
9 A. Street tax. If you're running anything that
10 is remotely connected to any different crews, i. e.,
11 bookmaking, any type of gambling, prostitution,
12 pornography, you have to pay a street tax to whoever's
13 crew is responsible for that operation. That comes
14 right to them on a cash basis, sometimes weekly,
15 sometimes monthly.
16 Q. When you say "to them," who's them?
17 A. To the members of different crews, whoever's
18 responsible for that operation, whatever crew is
19 responsible for gambling, whatever crew is responsible
20 for prostitution. Whatever crew is responsible
21 bookmaking, they would get paid the street tax if you're
22 a bookmaker. If you're a bookmaker, they would pay the
23 street tax. Plus on some occasions, you're paying
24 street tax to them plus you're paying street tax to the
25 police department in the same situation.
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11
1 Q. How are crews related to organized crime?
2 A. The term crew is used very loosely, and they
3 are different areas of expertise, as they say it, in
4 their business. A certain crew of guys would be in
5 charge of the juice loan, lending of the money. Another
6 crew would be responsible for collecting the money.
7 Another crew would be responsible for making sure that
8 it got to the bosses and the different people who were
10 It's a make-up of guys who are assigned a job
11 to do and that's what they do.
12 Q. All of this is in the context of the Chicago
13 outfit, you're talking about now.
14 A. Well Chicago outfit, mid western outfit,
15 whatever areas that they control, that's how that
17 Q. During the period of time you served on the
18 police force, did you ever participate in organized
20 A. From the day I came on the job, I was involved
21 in organized crime activity until I left the job. From
23 Q. From the very day you began.
25 Q. Did you associate with members and associates
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
12
1 of the Chicago outfit as a police officer?
2 A. I certainly did.
3 MR. CARMELL: I'm going to object to that
4 term. That presupposes he knows who is an associate,
5 who is a member, what a member is, what an associate is.
6 THE HEARING OFFICER: Let me have that
8 MR. BOSTWICK: Actually, it would be better to
9 establish the foundation on all of those topics.
11 Q. (BY MS. BOSTWICK) Can you describe for me in
12 your own words what a member of organized crime is as
14 A. It's very difficult to do that, but I'll try
15 as best I can. You know, the terms made and all this
16 other stuff that you see in the media and you see on TV
17 and you hear all that, for thirty-some years I was
18 involved with these people, and as we go along I'll
19 explain who these people are.
20 Made is a term only of respect, how much
21 respect a certain guy is given and what kind of bag of
22 money he gets during the month.
23 Associate members are guys who are wannabes.
24 They want to get made, they want to be in a position to
25 have that power, so they're doing all the running
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
13
1 around, making all the deals and handling the day-to-day
2 street operation.
3 The made guys, as you term them, are in a
4 position where they don't do anything. They just
5 collect. They just get their bag and that's it.
6 I mean, associate members I know -- I know to
7 get the terminology that you're using and I can describe
8 what position I think certain people were in, but to
9 describe made and associate and executive positions is a
11 Q. Did you associate during the period you served
12 on the police force with individuals who were associated
13 or who are made in the Chicago outfit?
14 A. In your terminology, I would say I did. Yes,
15 I did, absolutely.
16 Q. Well let's stick with your terminology now.
18 Q. Okay.
19 A. Okay.
20 Q. What time did you leave the police force?
22 Q. Yes. What date, approximately?
23 A. You mean was I done off the police department?
25 A. May of 1981.
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
1 Q. From '81 to '87, you still held a badge at one
2 point. Is that correct?
3 A. Yes, I did, almost the entire time.
4 Q. How did that work? Tell me about that.
6 Q. How did it work that you held a badge but you
8 A. After I was -- I was removed from the police
9 department in what you would say was a political coup.
10 Our town was strictly controlled by politics and other
11 things. And I lost my job after a mayor was elected who
12 wanted to reform the police department.
13 After that period of time, I went to my
14 township committeeman who was a personal friend of mine,
15 Morgan Finnley, and, you know, told him, you know, I've
16 been a policeman for twenty years. I need to carry a
17 gun, I need a badge. So they recommended that I come
18 down and work for him, which I did, as an investigator.
19 Shortly after I was there as an investigator,
20 I was taken up to Sheriff Elrod and I was sworn in as a
21 deputy sheriff's policeman and given a star which
22 permitted me again to carry a weapon.
23 Q. During this period of time, 1981 to 1987, did
24 you still participate in the affairs of the Chicago
25 outfit?
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
15
1 A. Absolutely.
2 Q. And actively associated with members and
3 associates of organized crime until you went to jail in
4 1987?
5 A. Absolutely. Up until the day I went to jail.
6 Q. Let's go back to the beginning, Mr. Corbitt.
7 How did you initially become involved in organized crime?
8 A. I was initially, and at the time not knowing
9 that I was involved in it, initially my first job as a
10 teenager was for a company called A & W Electric which
11 was in Summit, Illinois. It was owned by two brothers
12 Pete and Bill Altiere. They also had another guy who
13 was operating the company called -- I think it was Bill
14 White.
15 This company was a company that supplied slot
16 machines, gambling paraphernalia. As a background, the
17 company reworked and worked electric motors in the
18 front, but in the back they handled, you know, slot
19 machines and different machines.
20 I was a route guy. I would go out on a route
21 with another guy and we would pick up machines, slot
22 machines that were broken down and stuff like that and
23 bring them in and repair them.
24 From that point, I left there. And through
25 meeting a few people in there and telling them --
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
16
1 expressing my desire to go into my own business, some
2 people helped me financially and I went into the gas
3 station business. I owned a gas station at 56th and
4 Harlem in Summit.
5 Q. Approximately how old were you at this time
6 when you owned the gas station?
7 A. Eighteen. I operated this gas station. And
8 while operating this gas station, the people who I had
9 met at A & W Electric started trading with me.
10 I had a large fenced -- half-fenced lot next
11 to my place which was owned by the gas station. And on
12 occasion these guys would come in and what to park a
13 truck there and leave it for a week or leave it
14 overnight, which I permitted them to do.
15 Q. When you say "these guys," who do you mean?
16 A. Different members of -- which I now know were
17 referred to as organized crime.
18 These trucks turned out to be hijacked
19 material, stolen material, and they would leave them
20 there. When they would pick them up, they would give me
21 an envelope with some money in it and thank you very
23 And then I started to get a big trade in
24 different guys from these different crews of people and
25 one of them was Sam Giancanna. And Sam Giancanna and
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
17
1 another -- several other guys, Dominic Blassi,
2 Marshall Caifano, John Caifano and other people, would
3 come there and leave their cars and be picked by up
4 other people and be gone for a day, sometimes two days,
5 sometimes three days, and leave their car with me. And
6 they started trading at my gas station on a daily basis.
7 Q. Who are these people, Sam Giancanna, the
8 individuals you just mentioned, Caifano?
9 A. Who are they as far as what?
10 Q. As far as organized criminal activity, to your
12 A. Sam Giancanna at the time was the ultimate
13 boss of organized in Chicago at that particular time.
14 Q. Approximately what period is that?
15 A. That was in the nineteen sixties, mid sixties.
16 Q. How long did you own this gas station?
17 A. I had it several years. Almost two years, I
18 believe.
19 Q. Now how about Caifano, the Caifanos that you
20 mentioned; who were they?
21 A. John Caifano was an upper echelon guy of
22 organized crime. And, you know, there were many other
23 people who used the gas station that were involved with
24 these different -- with these different crews. As we go
25 along, I'll think of their names. I know most of their
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
1 names.
2 Do you want me to go on?
3 Q. No. Were you involved in assisting with the
4 criminal activities of others during this period?
5 A. Oh, sure. I stored their trucks, I stored
6 merchandise. They would bring merchandise in there from
7 the trunks of their cars and store it in my gas station
8 for some times up to a week, come and pick it up, take
9 it someplace else. You know, I would say I assisted
11 Q. Did you receive money for this?
12 A. Yes, I did.
13 Q. How did you receive that?
14 A. They would give me an envelope, they'd give me
15 a hundred dollar bill, they'd give me a fifty dollar
16 bill. They were always very good to me.
17 Q. Did there come a time where you quit this gas
18 station business or left it?
19 A. There came a time when I was told by the
20 owners, who happened to be the Altiere brothers that I
21 worked for originally, they owned a supper club on
22 Harlem Avenue call the Forum and my gas station was
23 directly next door. They came in one day and told me,
24 listen, we need this place for parking. We're going to
25 level the gas station. We're going to put a parking lot
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
1 in here. You're going to have to look for a job.
2 So several weeks after that occurred,
3 Sam Giancanna and Dominic Blassi came in. And they were
4 aware of what was going, and we had a conversation and
5 Sam Giancanna say what do you want to do?
6 I said I want to get a job. I want to make
8 He says do you want to be a policeman?
9 I said, no, I don't really want to be a
10 policeman.
11 He said, well, you know, it would a good thing
12 for you to, you know, get a job as a policeman and maybe
13 you could help us out once in a while.
14 At that point I was -- I had a young son, I
15 was newly married and I needed a job, and so I said,
16 yeah, I'll take the job as a policeman.
17 So he referred me to a mayor in
18 Willow Springs, John Rust. And I went out and had an
19 hour meeting with him and was sworn in in his tavern
20 that day as a police officer, that day. I think I was
21 twenty-one or twenty-two years old.
22 Q. That's how you got your start in the police
23 force?
24 A. That's how I got my start.
25 Q. Did you have a subsequent conversation after
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
1 you were sworn in on the police force with
2 Sam Giancanna?
3 A. Yes, I did.
4 Q. Can you tell us about that.
5 A. Several weeks after I was on the police
6 department, I was working an afternoon shift, and as I
7 came into the station, for some reason I saw Sam's car
8 sitting in the parking lot. They were both in the car
9 -- two guys were in the car.
10 I drove up, and he got in the car with me and
11 he asked he, he said, well what do you think?
12 I said I think it's all right. It's kind of
13 boring, but I think it's okay. It'll be all right.
14 He said -- he just told me one thing, he said,
15 well, if it works out good, he said, just remember your
16 friends, just remember who put you in this position.
18 Q. Can you describe -- this is Willow Springs.
19 Is that correct?
21 Q. Can you describe for us the town of
22 Willow Springs, the population, size of the police
24 A. When I went on the police department in the
25 sixties, Willow Springs was a town of about thirty-five
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
21
1 hundred people. It's a rustic, scenic area right in the
2 middle of a forest preserve area. It's bounded by
3 Route 45, I-55, 294, Route 83, Willow Springs Road.
4 It's a very nice community esthetically.
5 At the time that I became a police officer
6 there, the entire structure of the town
7 politically-wise, business-wise, the town was completely
8 controlled by organized crime. From liquor licenses to
9 construction to everything that went on in that
10 community was controlled by different crews over my
11 period of time that I was in that town.
12 Q. From the sixties to the eighties?
13 A. Who ran for office later, in the later years,
14 who became mayor was not really too much in their hands,
15 but by that time they controlled all the businesses and
16 everything that was -- when I say "all the businesses,"
17 I don't mean every single business, but I mean every
18 single business that involved liquor licenses.
19 The town of thirty-five hundred people had
20 almost forty liquor licenses. We had one strip that was
21 complete -- I would say at least eight houses of
22 prostitution in a row. We had at least six bookmaking
23 operations. We had two full-blown casinos.
24 Most of the town's liquor licenses stopped at
25 two and four o'clock in the morning. Our town didn't
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
22
1 get busy until two and four o'clock in the morning. And
2 that was seven nights a week.
3 Q. How big was the police force?
4 A. When I got there, it was, like, four full-time
5 men and I think we had about seven or eight part-time
6 men. A chief and three patrolmen and maybe seven or
7 eight part-time officers.
8 Q. How about toward the end of your term in the
10 A. When I left the department, we had, I believe,
11 twenty to twenty-five sworn officers and maybe ten or
12 fifteen or twenty part-time officers, working, sworn
13 officers.
14 Q. As a police officer in Willow Springs
15 throughout this period, the sixties to the early
16 eighties, did you take any specific action to assist the
17 Chicago outfit in its criminal activities in
19 A. Specific action. I would say that, you know,
20 on a weekly basis, sometimes on a daily basis, we were
21 involved in something that was going on with these
22 people, from disturbances in their establishments to
23 couriering money from one place to another. Yes, I
24 would say that I did facilitate their activities in that
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23
1 Q. Did you ever perform license plate checks?
2 A. Absolutely.
4 A. License plate checks on -- okay. On occasion
5 we had -- we didn't have a computer in our community at
6 that time or what they call a raids machine, so we had
7 to go through either the county sheriff's police or
8 another town that was doing work for us,
10 Occasionally the -- several members, different
11 members and different guys would say check this license
12 plate for me. I've seen this car following me, I've
13 seen this car by my house.
14 And I would check a license plate numbers for
15 them. Nine out of ten times they were Bureau of Chicago
17 I used to do this quite often, and on several
18 occasions I received visits from special agents of the
19 FBI wanting to know, you know, what I was doing in
20 regard to this procedure. Because when you -- well
21 never mind. When you check -- when you check a bureau
22 car or an FBI car, you get a different response than you
23 do from a normal license plate check.
24 Q. It's on those instances where you would be
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
24
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Were some of the establishments that you've
3 named, or all the establishments that you've named, the
4 liquor areas, the prostitution, the gambling
5 establishments, were you aware at any time as to whether
6 they were paying street tax to the Chicago outfit?
7 A. In those particular cases, I would say that
8 every place in there was already in the fold. They
9 weren't outsiders doing business. These operations were
10 run by their people. You know, I could be specific
12 Q. Why don't you give us a couple of specifics.
13 A. All right. One of the operations on
14 Keane Avenue, and there were three of them, one was
15 called the Miami Club, one was called a Bonanza Club and
16 one was called the Circle H Ranch. These were directly
17 run by guys who were in these different crews.
18 Kenny Hanson was one of the guys who ran an
19 operation. A guy by the name of Al Lorenz from the
20 Heights ran another one of the operations. And two
21 brother named Mike and Bob David, who were also out of
22 the Heights, out of the Chicago Heights, ran another
23 operation. And in concert, they would run their places
24 plus several other places that were already established
25 businesses in the community.
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1 Q. Was there any system devised relating to raids
2 of these establishments?
3 A. Well we didn't do much raiding from our
4 perspective in the community. But there was a system
5 devised back before we received our -- before we got own
6 radio room and our own radio operation that -- we had a
7 switch in the police station that would shut off the
8 street lights in the community.
9 When we were notified or asked to assist,
10 which on occasion they did, in a raid by the county
11 sheriff's police, the state police would come in, we
12 would hit the switch for the street lights and all the
13 establishments would shut down their operation.
14 At that time -- now you're talking about in
15 the mid sixties to the late sixties to the early
16 seventies Willow Springs still had three hundred slot
17 machines in it operating on a daily basis. One
18 establishment had a hundred fifty or two hundred of its
19 own machines in a fake wall that would disappear.
20 Q. Where was that establishment located?
21 A. On Archer Road, at the old American Legion
22 Center, which wasn't run by the American Legion but they
23 had their sign up for ten years. It was a, you know,
24 block building that was upstairs and downstairs and --
25 THE HEARING OFFICER: Was it a safe, a safe
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26
2 THE WITNESS: No, it was a wall, a fake wall
3 that would move down in front of the slot machines if
5 THE HEARING OFFICER: Oh, okay. I understand.
6 Q. (BY MR. BOSTWICK) You were in this
7 establishment, you saw this wall?
8 A. I was in there a hundred times.
9 Q. Now you also mentioned delivering money for
10 these people, as you've said, the mob. Can you describe
12 A. We're getting out of time frames. If you want
13 to keep it in the same time frame, we can talk about
14 what was going on with money at that time frame.
15 Q. Yes.
16 A. Okay.
17 Q. In the late sixties and early seventies.
18 A. Okay. Our mayor and our chief of police at
19 the time had a system which was a trickle-down system
20 but didn't trickle down very far. It was just like a --
21 it trickled down to them and then that was the end of
22 the system, and we were doing -- the patrolmen and the
23 guys on the street were doing all the work.
24 So we finally went to them and said, listen,
25 you know, this is a little ridiculous. We're doing all
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
27
1 the work, we're getting in all these fights, we're
2 getting -- you know, you guys got to start trickling
4 Well they objected to that situation, and we
5 convinced them that it would probably be the best thing
7 So on a weekly basis we would -- the mayor at
8 that time owned a tavern in this same strip where all
9 these houses of prostitution were at.
10 Q. This is Mr. Rust?
11 A. John "Doc" Rust. They called him Doc. His
12 father was a doctor and he pretended he was a doctor.
13 He would get an envelope from certain people
14 delivered to him. Then when we objected, the envelope
15 started coming to us, and then we would deliver it to
16 him just so we could be there at the same time the
17 envelope was opened and that sort of thing.
18 So we would meet -- one of the members would
19 come out of the Heights or wherever they were at the
20 time, whoever was operating in our town, and they would
21 bring a package. We would meet them and we would go to
22 the tavern, and it would be cut up right there in the
23 tavern and everybody would get a piece of the action.
24 Q. Did you continue receiving payoffs through the
25 late seventies and early eighties.
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
28
2 Q. How did it work then?
3 A. Well, you know, as time went on, we changed a
4 lot of things and different crews came in and different
5 people came in. You had to be a lot more careful about
6 how you were doing things.
7 There would one person, myself, who would met
8 with these people, and then whatever splitting up would
9 be done, I would do it. As the boss then, after 1973, I
10 took care of that. I took care of that end. I would
11 meet these people.
12 Q. When you say "as the boss," you mean the boss
16 A. Right.
17 Q. Were you aware that the outfit operated in
18 Willow Springs and elsewhere in Chicago during the
19 entire period you were on the police force?
21 Q. Did you ever investigate this organized
22 criminal activity in order to clean it up?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Why not?
25 A. That would have cost myself money. Why would
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
29
1 I want to clean it up at that time. I was no -- I had
2 no ambition to do that.
3 Q. Let me hand you what we've marked as GEB
4 Attorney's Exhibit 50, and maybe Mr. Vaira can take a
5 look over your should at this.
6 First of all, can you identify this document
8 A. It's a memorandum from my prosecutor
9 Thomas Scorza, U. S. Attorney's Office, dated
11 Q. When you say your prosecutor, what do you mean?
12 A. The U. S. Attorney that prosecuted me in all
13 three of my cases.
14 Q. Where did you get this memorandum from?
15 A. I got it in discovery in our 1987 racketeering
18 A. I believe I gave it to you.
19 THE HEARING OFFICER: What's that called,
20 Mr. Bostwick? What's that number?
21 MR. BOSTWICK: It's GEB Attorney's Exhibit
22 Number 50. And I'd move it for admission at this point.
23 THE HEARING OFFICER: Admitted.
24 (GEB Attorney's Exhibit Number 50 admitted
25 into evidence)
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
30
1 MR. CARMELL: Well can I just ask what it's
3 MR. BOSTWICK: Well if you'd rather I move for
4 admission after we go over it, I can do that.
5 MR. CARMELL: No, that's not my point. I
6 definitely can't read it. It's a lot material. Is it
7 dealing with matters he's talking about now in his
8 position as Officer, later Chief of Willow Springs, in
9 that area?
10 MR. BOSTWICK: Yes. It relates to
11 confirmation of the type of testimony he just provided.
12 MR. CARMELL: For that purpose, I don't have
13 an objection to this document coming in.
14 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. Go ahead.
15 Q. (BY MR. BOSTWICK) Can you describe what this
16 memorandum is before we go to specifics. What's
17 detailed in this memorandum?
18 A. This is a memorandum I believe from an
19 undercover agent of the FBI, Agent Larry Damron, who I
20 knew as Larry White -- or Wright, Larry Wright.
21 Q. What was this undercover operation, what did
23 A. This was really an undercover sting operation
24 where the FBI had put an undercover agent in with an
25 operation -- an organized crime operation run by
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
31
1 Michael Spilotro and Victor Spilotro.
2 MR. CARMELL: Excuse me. Just to clarify,
3 Mr. Hearing Officer.
4 THE HEARING OFFICER: Yes. Go ahead.
5 MR. CARMELL: This is a document which is from
6 an Assistant United States Attorney concerning notes of
7 an interview with a Special Agent Larry Damron, and this
8 is Larry -- involves Larry Damron's report of matters.
9 It does not involve anything that the witness has given.
10 Is that a fair statement, Mr. Bostwick?
11 THE WITNESS: I don't understand. I don't
13 MR. CARMELL: Well I'm just trying to get a --
14 this is not a statement of Mr. Corbitt's.
15 MR. BOSTWICK: That's correct.
16 MR. CARMELL: It's not a statement of
17 Mr. Corbitt's, and my quick perusal of it, there is not
18 a statement in that it concerns -- well I shouldn't say
19 concerns. That's all I want to be clear, that this
20 isn't Mr. Corbitt having told the FBI agent or
22 MR. BOSTWICK: Well except that there are
23 taped conversations that he's recorded on with the FBI
24 agent.
25 MR. CARMELL: According to Mr. Corbitt.
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
32
1 MR. BOSTWICK: According to this report.
2 MR. CARMELL: That's all I wanted clear up.
3 THE HEARING OFFICER: There's something in
4 here about Mike Corbitt talking to the agent, and this
5 is why he got this during the trial. It's some sort of
6 a 302.
7 MR. CARMELL: Right. I understand. But it's
9 THE HEARING OFFICER: No, no, no. It looks to
10 me like there's -- there's something in here.
11 MR. CARMELL: Right.
12 THE HEARING: They do talk about Corbitt.
13 Willow Springs is right down the road from
15 THE WITNESS: Yeah, very close.
16 THE HEARING OFFICER: All right.
17 THE WITNESS: Very close.
18 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. Go ahead.
19 Q. (BY MR. BOSTWICK) Is it fair to say that you
20 were a target or a subject of this FBI undercover
21 operation?
22 A. Yes, I was.
23 Q. Were you taped, according to this
24 memorandum --
25 A. No.
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
1 Q. -- in some of your phone -- in some of your
2 conversations?
3 A. No. No, I -- I believe they taped Michael and
4 Victor's conversations. I was never taped. He never
6 Q. Michael and Victor are who?
7 A. Spilotro.
8 Q. What is going on here? What are they trying
9 to set up and how are you involved?
10 A. Okay. What I believe the FBI was attempting
11 to do was to infiltrate the operation that was going on
12 in Willow Springs, my operation, because I was under
13 investigation at the time.
14 They had two members of organized crime,
15 Michael and Victor --
16 Q. Spilotro --
17 A. -- Spilotro, who this guy Larry Wright Damron
18 was a partner in a business that factored credit card
19 invoices. These credit invoices were coming from strip
20 joints, houses of prostitutions, juice loan operations,
21 and it was -- they were doing this with a credit card.
23 Spilotro told this guy Larry Damron Wright
24 that they thought they could get to me to open up an
25 off-track messenger service in Willow Springs, i. e. to
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
34
1 operate really as a bookmaking operation, no off-track.
2 So they sent this guy to see me and had a
3 meeting with me, and which I did have the meeting,
4 and --
5 Q. Is this the meeting on May 27, 1982.
6 A. That's correct.
7 Q. Referred to at the bottom of Page 2?
9 Q. Why don't you take us through that paragraph,
10 the paragraph that begins on the bottom of Page 2 and
11 ends a little above the middle of the page and --
12 A. Do you want me to read it?
13 Q. You can reads parts of it and paraphrase
14 others and tell us what happens in this meeting, what it
15 illustrates.
16 A. It says, "On May 27, 1982, Marren, who is
17 "Joe Marren, one of the people who worked for
18 "Spilotro, took Damron to meet Corbitt at the
19 "Willow Springs Police Station. Corbitt was not at
20 "the station when Damron and Marren first arrived
21 "there, but Corbitt then drove up to the station
22 "in his police car. Marren went up to the police
23 "car and spoke to Corbitt and then got in the back
24 "seat. Marren then called Damron over and
25 "introduced him as Larry. Damron then had a
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
1 "conversation with Michael Corbitt in which it was
2 "clear that Marren had already told Corbitt about
3 "the proposed plan to open a messenger service in
4 "Willow Springs. Before the meeting Marren had
5 "also told Damron that Corbitt had been making
6 "money on the side fixing DWIs and referring cases
7 "to his favorite lawyer. In any event, in the
8 "May 27, 1982, conversation Damron told Corbitt of
9 "the success of the Palatine operation and the
10 "monthly payments that operation generated for
11 "public officials there. Corbitt responded that
12 "the monthly payment offer was fine with him, and
13 "in the conversation made plain that his proposed
14 "messenger service was simply a front for an
15 "illegal bookmaking activity. Corbitt told
16 "Damron that Corbitt was satisfied with Damron's
17 "proposed payoff arrangement and Corbitt even
18 "suggested two locations that might be suitable for
19 "a Willow Springs messenger service. Corbitt also
20 "specifically inquired whether Damron had obtained
21 "the okay of the county, meaning the corrupt county
22 "sheriff's police. Corbitt also told Damron that
23 "Corbitt would need to have advanced approval from
24 "the Bastone brothers, who were street level bosses
25 "for the Chicago Mafia. Chicago insisted that one
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
1 "of these" --
2 Q. I'm sorry. That's not Chicago. It's Corbitt.
3 Right?
5 Q. You said Chicago insisted. It's Corbitt
6 insisted. Right?
7 A. Right. "Corbitt insisted that one of these OC
8 "guys would have to call Corbitt directly so that
9 "Corbitt would know that Damron had the mob's okay
10 "to operate as bookmaking service out of
11 "Willow Springs. Following their conversation
12 "with Corbitt, Marren and Damron actually drove
13 "around and visited specific sites for the
14 "messenger service operation, including two
15 "addresses Corbitt suggested."
16 Q. Did this occur?
17 A. Yes, it did.
18 Q. Is this a fairly accurate depiction of how it
19 is that you would interact with people who were trying
20 to set up payoffs for illegal bookmaking operations in
21 Willow Springs?
22 A. The only difference is, is that usually when
23 they come to you, they already have everybody's
24 approval. Nobody comes to you out of the dark, out of
25 the -- and says, you know, we want to do this and do
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
37
1 that.
2 Usually when somebody comes -- usually when
3 they came to me, I already had advance knowledge they
4 were coming and knew all about what they were going to
5 do.
6 THE HEARING OFFICER. Let me inquire. This
7 messenger service, am I correct, this is some sort of
8 phenomenon that started in Illinois --
9 THE WITNESS: Correct.
10 THE HEARING OFFICER: -- where they would have
11 a -- it would really be off-track betting, and
12 supposedly the messenger service would simply carry your
13 bet from wherever it is to the track.
14 THE WITNESS: But that never occurred.
15 THE HEARING OFFICER: That never occurred.
16 Right. And in fact, there was an original called
17 Pegasus.
19 THE HEARING OFFICER: And the ruse was that,
20 yeah, you were suppose to be sending messengers, but you
21 were really --
22 THE WITNESS: It was laid off. They were
24 Q. (BY MR. BOSTWICK) The Bastone brothers are
25 mentioned in this. Who are the Bastone brothers?
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
38
1 A. The brothers that I was referring to in this
2 conversation were Carmen and Sal Bastone. Salvatore and
3 Carmen Bastone, two guys that -- one guy in particular I
4 had been involved with for over twenty years at the time
5 and the other guy I'd known for ten or fifteen years,
6 Carmen. Sal I had been involved with for over twenty
8 Q. Now why is it that you would require advance
9 approval from the them specifically as opposed to just
10 somebody's word?
11 A. At that particular time, this was their area.
12 The Spilotros had nothing whatsoever to do in that area.
13 Everything they wanted to do, or any other crew, had to
14 go through them. This was their turf, territory,
15 whatever you want to call it.
16 Q. On the payoffs, if you had received those and
17 when you received them in other instances, who would the
19 A. What do you mean who would it go to?
20 Q. Well if you're going to get the payoff, where
21 does that money go?
22 A. It went to me.
23 Q. Anybody else?
24 A. Well whoever I -- whoever I deemed worthy,
25 yes. But mostly it went to me.
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
1 Q. Did the mob get a cut of these operations?
2 A. Absolutely. That operation there absolutely
3 would have paid a street tax to whoever's area that was
5 Q. Did other outfit bosses and crews other than
6 the Bastone brothers work in the Willow Springs area
7 over the time --
9 Q. -- in the late sixties to the early eighties?
11 Q. Even into the mid to late eighties?
12 A. Into the mid to late eighties. Maybe today,
14 Q. But as far as your personal knowledge, until
15 '87 when you went to jail.
17 Q. Describe the nature of your relationship with
18 Sal Bastone during the seventies and eighties.
19 A. Sal Bastone and I would see each other on a --
20 sometime on a daily basis in the late -- in the late
21 eighties on a daily basis. I was at his home; he as at
22 my home. We were -- went through all our family
23 tragedies, deaths, marriages, christenings. We were
25 Q. Did you have any specific relationship with
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
1 his children or vice versa?
2 A. His children were like my children. They were
3 in my house, they were on my boats, they were at my
4 vacation home, they were -- we were, you know, like best
5 friends.
6 Q. I'm going to show you after I show it to
7 Mr. Carmell here and then Mr. Vaira a couple of
8 photographs. I'll ask you to identify those.
9 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay those are marked --
10 MR. BOSTWICK: Actually, these have not been
11 entered yet. These are new.
12 THE HEARING OFFICER: These are 164A, 164B.
13 Okay. Show them to Mr. Corbitt.
14 Q. (BY MR. BOSTWICK) Mr. Corbitt, can you tell
15 me what 164A is? Is that the one you're looking at?
16 A. I64A is a picture of myself and Sal Bastone in
17 his condominium building in Hollywood, Florida, sometime
18 in the mid seventies -- early seventies.
19 164B is Salvatore Bastone, my youngest son
21 Q. Where did I get these photos?
22 A. From me.
23 MR. CARMELL: Can we fix the approximate date
25 THE WITNESS: B would have been -- he's 14
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
41
1 now. So early eighties.
2 MR. BOSTWICK: I'd move admission of 164A and
3 164B.
4 THE HEARING OFFICER: Admitted.
5 (GEB Attorney's Exhibits Number 164A and 164B
6 admitted into evidence)
7 Q. (BY MR. BOSTWICK) Who were some of your other
8 close contacts with the Chicago outfit? You've said
9 Mr. Giancanna and Mr. Bastone. Who were some of the
11 A. Contacts?
12 Q. Who were your closest contacts or associates?
13 A. Over the years, you know, I was in contact
14 with everybody who was anybody. I mean, I was -- I
15 captioned boats that Joey Aiuppa was on,
16 Petes Battaglia, Jackie Cerone. I brought packages to
17 his homes.
19 A. Joey Aiuppa. I traveled with him to --
20 Q. When you say "packages," let me stop you right
21 there. First of all, who is Joey Aiuppa?
22 A. Joey Aiuppa is a recently deceased head of
23 organized crime in Chicago and was for maybe forty
24 years.
25 Q. When you say you brought packages to his home,
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
42
1 what type of packages and for what purpose?
2 A. I -- I dropped off -- I'll start with
3 cigarettes. He was a very heavy smoker and he smoked
4 English Oval cigarettes.
5 One of the other businesses that I was
6 involved with, i. e., organized crime, was Rent-All
7 Vending, which was owned and controlled by a Jewish
8 fellow named Hy Larner, and they supplied him with all
9 of his cigarettes. So once every couple of months we
10 would take a case of cigarettes to whatever home he was
11 at in the Chicago area.
12 And he would only allow specific people to
13 bring them. And I would come, I would go with Sal, I
14 would go by myself and we would --
15 Q. Sal Bastone?
16 A. Sal Bastone.
17 I would bring packages that I had no knowledge
18 what was inside of them from jewelers in Chicago. One
19 in particular, Rocket Jewelers, downtown Chicago, every
20 holiday season I would go down and pick up a big package
21 from the jewelers and bring it there.
22 I would bring packages that I believe
23 contained money to his different homes, River Forest,
25 Q. Did you do this in your police car?
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
1 A. In unmarked police cars and in private cars.
2 Q. How about Joe Testa; who is he?
3 A. Joe is a friend of -- was a friend of mine for
4 thirty-some years. That's who he was.
5 Q. Associated with the Chicago outfit mainly?
7 Q. How so?
8 A. He owned a savings and loan, he owned a lot of
9 property. He was a real estate developer. Some of
10 these people invested in his projects. He was for a
11 great long time very well liked.
12 Q. Through the experiences you've described and
13 the relationships with these individuals, Sal Bastone,
14 Sam Giancanna, Joe Testa and others, did you learn about
15 the leadership structure of organized crime in Chicago?
16 A. What I would assume, I mean, my own opinion as
18 Q. Was your understanding of the leadership
19 structure important to you in your position helping out
20 the outfit as the Willow Springs Police Chief?
21 A. Well it wasn't really important to me because
22 I was like a protected guy. I had a guy -- I had a
23 Chinaman that would not let anybody come near me for
24 frivolous garbage, and I had a guy who kept people away
25 from me.
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
44
1 Q. Who is that?
3 THE HEARING OFFICER: You used the word
4 "Chinaman". That I believe is used in a --
5 THE WITNESS: Clout.
6 MR. BOSTWICK: Like a rabbi or --
7 THE HEARING OFFICER: Somebody who's either
8 your rabbi or your godfather. In Chicago it's often
10 Q. (BY MR. BOSTWICK) A protector.
11 A. Right. Right.
12 Q. Now at a certain point in time the
13 Inspector General's Office from LIUNA contacted you and
14 gave you a list of names of individuals who had worked
15 as officers or delegates on the Chicago District
16 Counsel. Do you recall that?
17 A. Yes, I do.
18 Q. Do you recall what your first instinct on that
19 list was?
20 A. I remember -- and this was early on, I think
21 the first time I met you. I told you there was a
22 picture out and I had seen it several times in the last
23 couple of years. The photo was referred to as the last
24 supper. And I said that's a picture you ought to get.
25 There's a -- you know, you want to talk about
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
1 organized labor and the unions in Chicago, there's a
2 picture that you should get. And I gave you, I think --
3 as a matter of fact, I gave you a picture that was a
4 black-and-white picture of that situation.
5 Q. Let me give you what has already been entered
6 in our hearing as Exhibit 6A. I'm going to show you
7 this picture. Can identify that for me?
8 A. Yes, I can.
9 Q. What is that?
10 A. That's a colored picture of the
11 black-and-white picture that I gave to you.
12 Q. Who is the individual -- I've only got the one
13 photograph down here because we're traveling. We better
14 keep that off the telephone.
15 THE HEARING OFFICER: Yeah. That may be a
17 Q. (BY MR. BOSTWICK) Who is the individual in
18 Exhibit A who is marked as Number 7?
19 A. Number 7 is Al Pilotto.
20 Q. Had you ever heard at any time that he was a
21 union official for the Laborers' Union in the Chicago
22 area?
23 A. Yes, I have.
24 Q. During what period of time had you heard that?
25 A. For a long period of time that I was on the
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
46
1 street. I mean, I can't give you an exact breakdown.
2 But, you know, I know Al Pilotto personally so I knew he
4 Q. In your experience, what did Al Pilotto do for
6 A. In my experience?
8 A. He was a -- the boss of the Chicago Heights
9 crew. That's what he did for a living, as far as I
10 knew, other than his union affiliate.
11 Q. Over what period of time was he a boss of the
12 Chicago Heights crew?
13 A. When I first came to Willow Springs, he was an
14 underboss to a guy by the name Frankie LaPorte.
15 Q. Frankie LaPorte?
17 Q. How do you spell that last name?
18 A. L-A-P-O-R-T-E, I believe. I'm not sure.
20 He was an underboss, and at the time I came to
21 Willow Springs he was running our community's
22 involvement in organized crime with several other
23 people. But he was the boss. Underboss, but the boss
24 out there. Street boss.
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
47
2 Q. When did you first meet Al Pilotto, do you
4 A. Maybe six or eight months after I was on the
5 job. Previous to that, we dealt with other people who
6 were aligned with him and with him. I heard his name
7 and I met him maybe six months after I was on the job.
8 Q. Can you describe that situation?
9 A. Yeah, I can. We were at the time -- the strip
10 that they controlled was called Keane Avenue. It ran
11 from 87th to 81st and Keane. And again, there were five
12 or six houses of prostitution, a couple of disco joints,
13 a couple of bookmaking operations and the mayor's tavern
14 were all on that strip. And it was famous for fights
15 and disturbances, as these places are.
16 And on one occasion our cars, along with
17 mutual aid from other communities, responded to a very
18 serious disturbance. As we were responding, some
19 individuals opened up on the squad cars with shotguns
20 from a cemetery that was directly across the street.
21 And nobody was injured, but some severe damage was done
22 to one of our squad cars.
23 And the next day, you know, the chief took the
24 car to the mayor and he told him, hey, listen, look what
25 they're doing to our squad cars.
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
48
1 MR. CARMELL: I'm going to object to this
2 unless he was there when they had the conversation.
3 THE WITNESS: Which conversation?
4 MR. CARMELL: The chief going to the mayor.
5 THE HEARING OFFICER: Well let's put it this
6 way: He's about to describe a conversation. Right?
7 And he knows about it somehow. Will you tell us how you
8 know about this conversation. You were on the police
9 force at that time.
10 THE WITNESS: Right. Right. I was brought
11 into the circumstances later in the day after the mayor
12 and the chief had this conversation. I was told by the
14 THE HEARING OFFICER: You may tell us that.
15 Q. (BY MR. BOSTWICK) What did the chief tell
16 you?
17 A. The chief told me that he had went up to the
18 mayor and showed him the squad car, and there was some
19 damage to the windows and the side of the car and
20 everything.
21 And the mayor had told him to jack the price
22 up on it, find out what it's going to cost, jack it up,
23 get hold of Al Pilotto and make them pay for the damage.
24 So, in fact, that's what what we did.
25 The damage on the car was about a thousand
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
1 dollars. We took it to a dealer and it was about a
2 thousand dollars. The chief added two thousand to it
3 and called Pilotto and asked him to come out to the --
4 to bring the money.
5 Q. Were you involved in that?
6 A. I was there. I was at the mayor's tavern when
7 Al Pilotto arrived.
8 Q. What happened then?
9 A. Well Al Pilotto arrived at the tavern, and
10 they went inside and they were discussing --
12 A. The mayor, Doc Rust, and I was outside. And a
13 large disturbance broke out in the tavern so I went in
14 the tavern. Al Pilotto was with a couple of guys who
16 So I went into the tavern, and the -- an
17 argument broke out because Al Pilotto said the mayor was
18 trying to rip him off and they were back and forth with
19 the conversation.
20 Anyway, the substance was, is that the price
21 was cut in half to like fifteen hundred dollars. He
22 gave the mayor the money, and the mayor put the money in
23 his pocket and turned the thing into the insurance and
24 they fixed the car.
25 But after that occasion, I met with Al Pilotto
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
50
1 several other times over a period of years until a
2 different crew came in and took over that area.
3 Q. During what period of time was Al Pilotto
4 involved in organized criminal activity in
6 A. From the mid -- I would say from the mid
7 sixties to the early seventies.
8 THE HEARING OFFICER: We've been at it a
9 little bit over an hour. How's the reporter doing?
11 THE WITNESS: I want to take a break.
12 THE HEARING OFFICER: Let's take a ten-minute
13 break here.
14 (Recess from 10:30 to 10:45 a. m.)
15 Q. (BY MR. BOSTWICK) Mr. Corbitt, we were
16 talking about Al Pilotto and the time period where
17 Mr. Pilotto was involved in organized criminal activity
18 in Willow Springs. Did you ever receive payoffs from
19 Al Pilotto personally?
21 Q. Approximately, what time frame and how often?
22 A. The time frame would have been late '65, also
23 in 1968 and 1969.
24 Q. How did this work? Can you describe the
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
1 A. We would have a set-up meeting place.
2 Sometimes it would be a restaurant, sometimes it would
3 be at the mayor's tavern, sometimes it would be on the
4 highway. I'd get a call. I'd call them back and say
5 meet me here, meet me there. I'd meet him and I'd go
6 in, and he'd give me an envelope.
7 Q. The envelope would contain money?
8 A. That's correct.
9 Q. What would it be for? Who would it be for?
10 A. It would be for me, and there'd be a separate
11 envelope -- before I became chief, there was a separate
12 envelope for the chief and there was a separate envelope
13 for the mayor.
14 Q. What did you understand the payment was for?
15 A. For protecting their operations that they had
16 going in Willow Springs.
17 Q. When Al Pilotto left Willow Springs, did you
18 understand that he continued in a leadership position in
19 the outfit?
20 A. Absolutely.
21 Q. How did you understand that?
22 A. Well just through my association with other
23 people that were in that -- that were out in the
24 Willow Springs and other people that I associated with.
25 Frankie LaPorte died, and when that occurred Al Pilotto
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
1 took over as the boss of the Heights, the
2 Chicago Heights, Blue Island and the southern suburbs.
3 Q. Throughout what period of time did he hold
5 A. I think that would have been during the late
6 sixties, early seventies, and then I believe he went to
8 Q. So it's your understanding that until he went
9 to prison, he held a position in organized crime?
10 A. Absolutely.
11 Q. Let me refer you back to this GEB Attorney
12 Exhibit 6A. Who is Number 8 on that photograph?
13 A. Number 8 is Vincent Solano.
14 Q. Did you ever hear that he was a union official
15 of the Laborers' Union in the Chicago area?
16 A. I knew he was a Teamster official. I didn't
17 know with what union.
18 Q. You didn't know with what union?
19 A. No.
20 Q. In your experience, what did Vince Solano --
21 A. What did he do for a living?
22 Q. Yes.
23 A. I have no idea other than a union official or
25 Q. What did he do to make money as you understood
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53
1 it?
2 A. He was the boss of the north-side street crew.
3 Q. During what period of time?
4 A. I would say, you know, all during the
5 seventies up until the early eighties and maybe even
6 beyond that. I'm not sure after the mid eighties where
7 he was at.
8 Q. Can you describe the general nature of your
9 interaction with Vince Solano? Did you have
10 interactions with him?
11 A. I had interactions with Vince Solano on -- one
12 of the assignments or jobs that I had later on in the
13 seventies and eighties was, I was a courier, I was a
14 money courier for a far north-side crew which delivered
15 money to all the bosses of the different crews.
16 I would go to O'Hara Field, meet somebody that
17 would come into town, take them in my car and spend the
18 entire night and sometime the following morning dropping
19 off packages of what I knew was cash money to different
20 individuals in Chicago.
21 Q. What period of time is this?
22 A. That would have been late sixties, all through
23 the seventies, and until I came to prison.
25 A. Right.
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54
2 A. Vince Solano was one of my drop-off points.
3 And I would meet him at several locations downtown,
4 that's how I was able to finally meet with him
5 personally one-on-one. I used to meet with somebody
6 else and drop his off with somebody else.
7 Q. Who were those people, just for clarification?
8 A. I used to meet with Pat Marcy at
9 Counselor's Row, a restaurant in Chicago, and other
10 locations and drop off garbage bags full of money.
11 Q. Literally, a garbage bag?
13 Q. Like a Hefty trash bag you get from a store?
14 A. Hefty -- maybe a -- I would say 30-gallon
15 garbage bags and -- I mean, they wouldn't be heaped to
16 the top, but that's how they collected the money, in
17 garbage bags. On occasion I knew how much was in the
18 bags. I mean, there was hundreds of thousands of
19 dollars in the bags.
20 Q. Hundreds of thousands?
21 A. Hundreds of thousands of dollars in the bags.
22 Q. How --
23 A. But not each guy got a hundred thousand
24 dollars. It was taken to a central counting area where
25 they counted it all out, separated it, and then it was
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55
1 marked who got what, where it went, and it was then
2 delivered.
3 Q. Were you involved in the counting?
5 Q. How do you know that this counting took place?
6 A. I was there when it was counted.
7 Q. You were the person that dropped them off?
8 A. I was one of the persons who dropped it off to
10 Q. Tell me how it was that you came to actually
11 meet face-to-face with Vince Solano.
12 A. One one occasion where I went to meet
13 Pat Marcy to drop off Vince Solano's and several other
14 people's, Pat Marcy told me that Vince did not want him
15 taking his money anymore, that he wanted it delivered
17 So I said, whatever, but, you know, you're
18 going to tell me where and this and that.
19 I had known Vince Solano pervious to this on a
20 somewhat social basis from seeing him around the
21 Rush Street area, seeing him around the north side,
22 seeing him at wakes and different functions that I was
23 introduced to him. So he knew who I was; I knew who he
25 So after that period of time, I would meet him
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
1 personally and drop off his money.
2 Q. Where would you meet him, what types of
3 places?
4 A. I would meet him restaurants, I met him in
5 restaurants on Rush Street, I met him parking garages, I
6 met in apartment complexes, all over the city.
7 Q. How would you decide where to meet him?
8 A. We would have a phone call and he'd tell me
9 where to meet him. I had a beeper and a portable phone,
10 and he'd contact me or I'd contact him and I'd meet him.
11 Q. Who were some of Vince Solano's closest
12 associates in the outfit that you were aware of? I'm
13 not using the term associates now as mob associates.
14 Who were the people he was closest to within the
15 organization of the Chicago outfit?
16 A. Well, you know, really I don't know specific.
17 There's some people that I know who they were
18 specifically around, but I wasn't around him that much
19 and his different crews to know who the guys were that
20 were around him. I knew some of the people who hung
21 around him, I knew some of the people that were with
22 him. But, you know, as far as crew members, I don't --
23 you know, right off the top of my head, I can't say who
24 he was -- you know, I may think of it as we go along,
25 but I can't think of it right now.
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
1 Q. How about the same question for Al Pilotto.
2 A. Al Pilotto, because I was involved with him
3 for so long, I know quite a few of the guys that were
4 around him. Al Tocco, Bonnets, Mike and Bob David,
5 Frankie LaPorte, Al Lorenz, Wayne Bock, Joey Petite,
6 Nick Guzzino, Richard Guzzino. That's enough.
7 THE HEARING OFFICER: Larry Petite?
9 THE HEARING OFFICER: You said Joey.
10 THE WITNESS: Joe and Larry both.
11 THE HEARING OFFICER: The only reason I say
12 that, I always hear them mentioned together,
14 THE WITNESS: Yeah. Well they usually always
15 are together.
16 Q. (BY MR. BOSTWICK) Why don't you go through
17 the rest of those individuals and simply tell me who
18 they are and the nature -- briefly what the nature of
19 your association, if any, was with these individuals
20 starting with Number 1 on Exhibit 6A.
21 A. Number 1 is Tony Accardo, and I've had, like I
22 said, many, many different meetings and associations
24 Q. What types of places would you see him?
25 A. I captained a boat that he fished on in
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58
1 Florida. I was at his home that he used in
2 Palm Desert, California, where he golfed. I was at
3 wakes with him, I was at weddings with him.
4 He knew me on a personal basis as far as my
5 name. I never associated -- I mean, when I say he was
6 on my boat, he was on my boat with four or five people
7 or on a boat that I captained. They played cards and
8 fished. I really was not privy to a lot of their
9 conversations on the boat.
10 But I knew the man very well. I was at his
11 home in River Forest, I was at his home on Ashland, I
12 was at his home in Barrington.
13 Q. What is your understanding of his position in
14 the Chicago outfit, if any?
15 A. You know, media and terminology of my own, he
16 was the boss of bosses. He was the boss.
17 Q. How about Number 2?
18 Well let me ask one more questions about
19 Tony Accardo. Over what period of time did you
20 understand that he held a leadership position in the
22 A. Did I understand?
23 Q. Right.
24 A. Maybe forty years.
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
1 A. Even though -- even when he stepped back, he
2 never really stepped back. When other people were up
3 front, he was still the boss. I mean, my opinion, just
4 from interaction and things that I saw happen myself
5 personally, he was the boss.
6 Q. How about Number 2?
7 A. Number 2 is Joe Amato, who I never really had
8 a lot of interaction at all with him. I met him on
9 several occasions. He was a DuPage County guy and I
10 never really had a lot of action with him in any period
11 of time.
12 Q. What was your understanding of any position he
14 A. He was a boss. He was an underboss.
15 Q. Of the Chicago outfit?
17 Q. How about Number 3?
18 A. Cesar Divarco. Cesar I know as a boss of a
19 little lower magnitude. He had a powerful crew around
20 him and that's why he was boss. He was north side also,
21 a north-side guy.
22 Q. During what period of time?
23 A. Fifties, sixties and seventies.
24 Q. Can you describe the nature of your
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
1 A. The same as Amato, I didn't have a lot of
2 interaction with him. I knew him to meet him and to see
3 him and I knew, again, what his position was from other
5 Q. Did you ever drop off money or pay money to
6 him?
8 Q. How about Number 4?
9 A. Number 4 was my good friend for fifteen years,
10 Jimmy Torello, Jimmy "Turk" Torello.
12 A. Turk.
13 Q. That's a nickname?
15 Q. You said he was your good friend. What did
16 you understand his position to be in the Chicago outfit,
18 A. He was a boss. But when I knew him, he was
19 just a guy out working the field. He was partnered up
20 with a guy named Joe Ferriola, Joe Negal. And they had
21 different vending routes and different things that they
22 took care.
23 At one time early on in Willow Spring, that
24 was -- part of the town was in his location, part of it
25 was in the Heights location.
E. R. MACK COURT REPORTERS (813) 229-9462
1 Q. When you say "his location," you mean
3 A. Turk's domain or Turk's territory came from
4 Route 83, which is not in Willow Springs, to
5 Willow Springs Road. They had maybe one or two houses
6 of prostitution and a couple of vending stops, and that
7 was Turk's area.
8 And him and I became very friendly, and I was
9 around him socially and with him for years, ten years.
10 Q. How often would you see him in that ten-year
11 period?
12 A. Once a month, maybe twice a month. We'd have
13 dinner. He'd call me. I'd meet him in Chinatown, I'd
14 meet him in Oak Brook. A very funny guy, but a very
15 serious guy, too.
16 Q. What type of criminal activity were you aware
17 that he was in? You mentioned the house of
18 prostitution.
19 A. In my opinion, he was involved -- in my
20 opinion, he was involved in a lot things just from our
21 conversation. He was involved in heavy juice loan
22 activity. They were making a lot of loans. They were
23 involved in a lot of cartage thefts, a lot of big
24 trucking thefts that were going on. They were receiving
25 street taxes and the merchandise.
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62
1 And also, he had a crew of active take-down
2 robberies guys that were doing some big scores around --
3 around, not just in Chicago, but all over the country.
4 Guys that I knew just by meeting them through him.
5 Q. Can you tell us a few of the names of these
6 individuals?
7 A. Steve Tomaras was one of them, Jimmy Maraglia
8 was anot